Curse

sumrtym · Oct 13, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

And at surmnym (sp?) - you harping about your 20/20 necromancer zodiac items is EXACTLY what makes them what you desire. That is simply a goal for you in game - to either acquire these items from your own playing, or to gain enough wealth so that you can acquire them when you find someone actually selling them.

Now, let's say that you go down the "instant gratification route" and you are able to compile these items very quickly after the inscriptions come to pass. How happy will you be with them? Will you use them, forsaking all other items, for the next year?

Chances are that you have what you want, and you will likely be attracted to the latest "shiny" thing...which you can acquire in two seconds via trading. After a short while, the skin of items becomes relatively meaningless to you, as you come to realize that anything is obtainable very quickly for very cheap.

Those things are not available because the chances of getting those mods is infinitesimal under the current system. And yes, I would use them...that's why I want them. lol

Runs off to salvage his FoW armor because he doesn't like it any more since there's new armor in Nightfall.

Stupid train of thought. There's a difference between obtainable and non-obtainable. Present system very much favors the latter, while the change incorporates the former.

Jetdoc · Oct 13, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

I weep for your E-Peen Jetdoc.

Wow...personal insults versus a rational argument. I guess you totally "pwned" me there.

Jetdoc · Oct 13, 2006, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

Are you sure that the current system is perfect as it is and doesn't give any "instant gratifications"?

No, I'm not saying that the current system doesn't completely exclude the type of "luck" that you're referring to.

However, many players don't rely on that "luck" to obtain those items that they desire. They play the game, they accumulate wealth, and they utilize that wealth to purchase the item they want as another "reward" for playing the game.

Your example of being able to purchase that item is definitely relevant...it adds to the frustration of getting the item (which I would argue is the lack of a decent trading system in game), but also adds to the satisfaction when that item is actually purchased.

sumrtym - This also applies to your thoughts as well. Yes, it is very, very hard to find your 20/20 zodiac items. It's also very frustrating. But at the same time, when you DO find that item and have enough wealth to purchase them in the current system, it is highly likely that you would keep that item for a very long time, as a reminder of the "reward" of obtaining that goal.

I believe that the ease of getting that item directly corresponds to how much you personally value that item. No, I'm not saying that you need to trash all of your FoW armor - but there was a level of satisfaction that you derived in getting that armor, given the relatively high cost (and difficulty) in getting it. That goes directly to my point - if that FoW armor cost the same amount as 1.5K, I would say that you are much more likely to abandon it for a new skinned armor, since you realize that it's easily replaceable if you ever choose to go back to it later.

sumrtym · Oct 13, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

sumrtym - This also applies to your thoughts as well. Yes, it is very, very hard to find your 20/20 zodiac items. It's also very frustrating. But at the same time, when you DO find that item and have enough wealth to purchase them in the current system, it is highly likely that you would keep that item for a very long time, as a reminder of the "reward" of obtaining that goal.

I believe that the ease of getting that item directly corresponds to how much you personally value that item. No, I'm not saying that you need to trash all of your FoW armor - but there was a level of satisfaction that you derived in getting that armor, given the relatively high cost (and difficulty) in getting it. That goes directly to my point - if that FoW armor cost the same amount as 1.5K, I would say that you are much more likely to abandon it for a new skinned armor, since you realize that it's easily replaceable if you ever choose to go back to it later.

Well, you don't know me at all. I buy what I like. I have many sets of armor, some of which were VERY easy for me to acquire. Guess what? I still have them.

And even if someone did junk it for another item, what business is it of yours anyway? Again, I choose the skins I like and play with them because "I" like them. I don't find endless frustration "fun". And inscriptions is not like typing /preorder. You still have to find a low req skin, mods, etc. and put it together. Your argument you only want what is hard to obtain is false.

BTW, if people complained about getting high-level armor early, it's the first I heard of it. I think the only complaints about that were from people from chapter 1 who liked charging for drok's runs, much as your arguments against inscriptions boil down to now under the pretense of "others interests".

Abnaxus · Oct 13, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumrtym

Well, you don't know me at all. I buy what I like. I have many sets of armor, some of which were VERY easy for me to acquire. Guess what? I still have them.

And even if someone did junk it for another item, what business is it of yours anyway? Again, I choose the skins I like and play with them because "I" like them. I don't find endless frustration "fun". And inscriptions is not like typing /preorder. You still have to find a low req skin, mods, etc. and put it together. Your argument you only want what is hard to obtain is false.

Absolutely true.

I started my necro in GW:P and I loved the pre-searing necro armor, but that skin was not available later in the game, so after a while I bought a 15k bonelace, dyed it black bla bla, but I kept in my inventory the presearing one.

When I discovered that in Cantha the presearing skin was available and with max stats and with the possibility to have +7e, I jumped in no time to the crafter and got my beloved 1,5k armor, and for the rest of the game I have used only that.
I still have the 15k black dyed in my inventory of course, I wear it only sometimes when I am in the cities, when I want to show that I have a 15k black armor ...

This personal example shows that players not necessarily want the 1337est items, they like freedom of choice.
In Prophecies, if you wanted a +7e armor, you were obliged to a fixed skin (gladiator, scar patterns and so on).
With Factions, A.net has given the possibility to choose the skin independently from the stats, adding more flexibility in armor crafting system.

Hopefully in Nightfall this will be finally extended also to weapons, with the great idea of inscription salvaging.

Tijger · Oct 13, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco

ebay...

lol what shards and ectos ?

Everything is nerfed, you get 1 or 2 ectos in like 1 hour of doing UW and 2 -3 shards of FOW.

And Im not really a expert but I dont think prices are going to drop, I think Im going to see lots of people spamming W.T.S SWORD INSCRIPTION 15^50 100K+XX ECTO, as I said before.

Well, then I'll be really rich real soon since I've got gold jade swords with 15^50 sitting in storage. They're all req 12 so not much of a market for them but if you're right I'll just salvage them for the inscriptions and make loads of cash!

Ofcourse, that rather unlikely to happen.

PS: So, what do you want? You dont want everyone to have godly items but ecto's and shards should come easy and drop by the bucket? You dont think that might devaluate them a tiny bit maybe?

Clone · Oct 13, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

I could see these working out very well. I could also see them very easily getting out of hand. As others have stated, we could start to see people charging 100k+ for clean weapons simply because they have a good req and skin. I for one am sick of the 100k+E crowd already.

Next would be the general availability of the inscriptions. IF there isn't some set price via NPC crafters, these too could start to get out of hand in price.

winkgood · Oct 13, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

Muahahahaha!

300 chest runs means opening 300 chests or enter 300 times in FoW and open more than 1 chest each run?

If it means opening 300 chests, then 300x750g = 225k and just to get 1 single axe statwise acceptable.

This is one of the typical nonsense post of people inviting other players who are looking for a specific item do play the lottery and go chest running.
It's basically something comparable to this:

Over 300 chest runs as in over 1000 chests opened in FoW. And believe me, the chest runs more than payed for themselves. This was back in the day before they increased the drop quality (pre factions) so that 14^50 was actually worth quite a bit. 15(stance) req8 went for around 100K. The 20(under 50) went for a good amount as well. Even the 15^50 req12 went for around 120K. My above mentioned drops were only the good chaos axe drops I got. I also got multiple fellblades, shadow bows, shadow shields (including a -2/-2 shield), shadow staffs, and tons of good mods that sold for quite a bit. Its a pity that none of these counted towards my treasure hunter title.

So if the odds of getting good drops is really as bad as you say, then me and other chest runners should have lost money over time, right? This wasn't the case as I made a huge profit with all of my chest runs. My chest runner friends who actually took the time to sell their items also made quite a bit.

sumrtym · Oct 13, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

Over 300 chest runs as in over 1000 chests opened in FoW. And believe me, the chest runs more than payed for themselves. This was back in the day before they increased the drop quality (pre factions) so that 14^50 was actually worth quite a bit. 15(stance) req8 went for around 100K. The 20(under 50) went for a good amount as well. Even the 15^50 req12 went for around 120K. My above mentioned drops were only the good chaos axe drops I got. I also got multiple fellblades, shadow bows, shadow shields (including a -2/-2 shield), shadow staffs, and tons of good mods that sold for quite a bit. Its a pity that none of these counted towards my treasure hunter title.

So if the odds of getting good drops is really as bad as you say, then me and other chest runners should have lost money over time, right? This wasn't the case as I made a huge profit with all of my chest runs. My chest runner friends who actually took the time to sell their items also made quite a bit.

Day 1 down on the 2 day "you can get anything on guru if you ask". All I have to say about that.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 13, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

So if the odds of getting good drops is really as bad as you say, then me and other chest runners should have lost money over time, right? .

Of course you and your fellow chest runners are making money when you're selling that one extremely rare drop for hundreds of ectos. It sure as hell doesnt prove that getting good drops is common at all.

HunterRose · Oct 13, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Sorry, I'm going to post without reading ALL of the posts, because there's just too much bickering.

So here's my 2 cents. Rare skins / loot are great to have and fun to obtain. But this new salvaging system WILL NOT ruin the economy nor will it completely destroy the value of those truely unique items. Here are my two reasons why.

1) Collector items - true they don't have the rare skins but they have perfect mods for what? 5 dropable items that you can prolly get from killing mobs on your way to the collector. Did these perfect, almost free weapons ruin the economy? No, they just allowed all players to have another item on the menu.
Sometimes I don't even think most people know about them, but more likelly they turn their nose up to them cause they want to be l33t.

2) Green items - Perfect Mods with unique skins. Again these items didn't ruin the economy, as it turned out it gave us all something else to farm. And gave us all many other builds to create (B/P groups for TotPK, solo W/N in SF, and too many to mention for Factions) Last time I checked the majority of these items are still selling for a decent amount of gold and will continue to do so.

So as some of the previous post have mentioned a new salvage system won't take away from the truely rare skins (Vertebreakers, Phoenix Blades, Zodiacs, etc) these you will still have to work for and thus will not crash the economy (unless your idea of a crashed economy is everything you own, now seems like you over paid for >_< doh). But now instead of farming/grinding elite quests/chest running X hundred times because the items that dropped for you just wasn't "perfect", you can take those 2 near perfects and make 1 perfect. Will this lower the value of that weapon? Yes in gold, but no in sentiment. Your just gonna have to say goodbye to those 100k + ectos items...unless they truely are uniquely rare like -2 stance -2 enchanted shields.

And lastly Anet please add an auction house (down with spam bots and time wasted WTS/WTB) give a list of competetive prices where I can get the best bang for my buck and a LFG window (ie EQ1 W/Mo Lfg THK, SF, Faction boss farming)...I know if you want GW you be like other games why don't you just play those other games...because I love GW and I want to improve MY selfish gaming experience.

Cybah · Oct 13, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

I'm using different rare items with non-perfect stats like iridescent aegis req8 +27 always -5 20%.THOSE items will be crap after this update and I will lose 300k which I have spend for this shield.

...just because everyone will be able to upgrade a crappy iridescent aegis (my shield won't be such rare then anymore.)

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 13, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

I'm using different rare items with non-perfect stats like iridescent aegis req8 +27 always -5 20%.THOSE items will be crap after this update and I will lose 300k which I have spend for this shield.

...just because everyone will be able to upgrade a crappy iridescent aegis (my shield won't be such rare then anymore.)

So because you spent way too much money for an item then it means that ANET should never improve the salvaging system? Wow.

winkgood · Oct 13, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

Missing words... from an npc (ie part of the game, not a person). If you read my other posts you'll see I'm not denying they'll drop now and then, and there are plenty on the market, but if they're just handed to you by a player then they're not earnt.

Here's the shopping list to equip one character - what do you think the odds are the odds of having all of the following drop for the same person with r12 or lower?
1) 15/-5 Longsword
2) 15^50 and 15 ench Flamberge or Fellblade
3) 15^stance buttefly/wingblade
4) 15/-5 Halo axe
5) 15^50 and 15/enchant chaos axe or gothic dual
6) 15^stance hand axe
7) 15^50 and 15/enchant tetsubo or plagueborn hammer
8) 15/-5 runic hamer
9) 15/stance Magmas arm

And thats just the weapons required to equip one character, and doesn't even include the extra elemental weapon of each type needed for killing other warriors. I can tell you that I have clocked almost 3k hours, at least 1/3 of that time farming, and not one thing on the shopping list has dropped.

I'll reiterate my argument again, because its seems to be getting lost. Inscriptions give players who want to earn items for themselves a realistic way to do so. Inscriptions do not take away any options from those that want to take the easy way out and buy them.

I think you have a misconception of the RPG genre. Lets set aside MMORPG's for a moment because numerous individuals in here have ranted about Guild Wars not being a MMORPG. Take almost any real RPG game and you will find the same pattern. The items you are talking about are rare items, not greens, collector items, or some kind of item that if you kill a certain boss, you will obtain without a doubt. There is a possibility that you could farm for 10,000 hours and still not see any of those items. Chances are that you will but its all about chance. Hence the reason why they are rare. This is one of the features that makes RPGs so appealing to many. If I wanted a game where everything was linear and that I could obtain everything and nothing was left to chance then I would be playing Prince of Persia or something similar. I've said it already but I will say it again. I think most people who play the game would agree with me that one of the appealing parts of Guild Wars is that in many ways, it is a non linear game. True, there is a weak storyline which Anet tries to get us to follow, but other than that, we get to pick and choose how we play Guild Wars.

There have been numerous pro-inscriptionists try to downplay my comparison of rare items to fame and rank. They've used the argument that rank and fame are set goals and that you will obtain them without a doubt. Obviously those people have very little experience in Heroes Ascent. There are times where you may go into Heroes Ascent and lose every single match you play. In other words, you can play for hours without obtaining a single point of fame. Or there are times where you go in and take Halls and rack up on the fame. Its chance what teams you'll be matched up against, the experience level of the opposing players and the countermeasures that your build has against their build. Obtaining rank 15 is by far, more difficult to obtain than any item in the game. Your chances of getting the items you mentioned are far greater than getting rank 15 with the same amount of effort put forth.

Going back to your list of items. That is quite a list. I have no doubt that if you gave me a week, I could obtain every item on that list. Since you are unwilling to swallow your pride and trade with others to obtain rare items, I'll just tell you flat out. Your list is based on wants, not needs. Collector items and greens will give you the same functionality as those items. Your own vanity is what drives you to want those items but refuse to trade with others.

Here's the computer I wanted to get:
Intel Core 2 Duo 6800
2 * ATI Radeon X1950 XTX Crossfire
Corsair XMS2 PC2 6400 (2 * 1 Gigabyte)
Asus P5B Deluxe Wifi-AP
Creative Labs Audigy 2 Platinum
Zalman CNPS9500 HSF
2 * WD Raptor 150GB

Here's the computer I ended up getting:
Intel Core 2 Duo 6400
ATI Radeon X850 XT
Corsair XMS2 PC6400 (2* 512)
Asus P5B Deluxe Wifi-AP
Zalman CNPS9500 HSF
2 * WD Raptor 36GB

Sometimes, we don't get exactly what we want. Learn to live with it, buddy. But you know what? The fact that we can't get everything in the game (and in life) is what makes things so interesting. The journey in obtaining things is where the fun comes from, not from owning everything and playing 'dress up' with our toons. You might disagree with this but deep down inside, this is probably true with 95% of the Guild Wars population.

Zehnchu · Oct 13, 2006, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

I'm using different rare items with non-perfect stats like iridescent aegis req8 +27 always -5 20%.THOSE items will be crap after this update and I will lose 300k which I have spend for this shield.

...just because everyone will be able to upgrade a crappy iridescent aegis (my shield won't be such rare then anymore.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

Sometimes, we don't get exactly what we want. Learn to live with it, buddy.

Pretty much sums it all up, and I didn't have even say it.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 13, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

Sometimes, we don't get exactly what we want. Learn to live with it, buddy.

If you truly believe in that philosophy, then you wouldnt have gotten so worked up about this rumoured upcoming change. I mean you're fighting tooth and nail over this change that would take something that YOU want.

So remind me to direct you back to your own quote when/if this all happens. Let's see how you take it then.

UndeadRoadkill · Oct 13, 2006, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

If I wanted a game where everything was linear and that I could obtain everything and nothing was left to chance then I would be playing Prince of Persia or something similar. I've said it already but I will say it again. I think most people who play the game would agree with me that one of the appealing parts of Guild Wars is that in many ways, it is a non linear game. True, there is a weak storyline which Anet tries to get us to follow, but other than that, we get to pick and choose how we play Guild Wars.

Really? GW seems very linear to me, especially the way they set up Factions (i'm hoping Nightfall will be different). I think its status as an 'RPG' is even questionable, but they do bill it as one, so I'm not going to argue about that.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 13, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winkgood

There have been numerous pro-inscriptionists try to downplay my comparison of rare items to fame and rank.

For the millionth time:

Weapons and mods are part of actual gameplay. Fame and Rank are NOT.

And the new salvaging system isnt strictly to get rare items. The only people who keep ranting about rares are the anti-inscriptionists. Bottomline is that the proposed salvaging system is a more flexible system NOT just to get rares. It's only your narrowmindedness that cant get around that idea.

winkgood · Oct 13, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

If you truly believe in that philosophy, then you wouldnt have gotten so worked up about this rumoured upcoming change. I mean you're fighting tooth and nail over this change that would take something that YOU want.

So remind me to direct you back to your own quote when/if this all happens. Let's see how you take it then.

There have already been numerous posts by anti-inscriptionists with clear reasoning as to why the addition of inscriptions would be detrimental to the game and the players in the game. Since you have chosen to ignore those posts, it is not surprising that you don't understand my meaning.

As pointed out by another individual, if the majority of anti-inscriptionists who have posted in this thread were looking out for themselves, they would stand to gain the most by the addition of inscriptions as they would have more 15^50 mods, more rare skins, and more money to obtain every item they wanted to once inscriptions were added. Those in favor of inscriptions would take much longer to amass their collection of perfect weapons than many of those against it. The fact is, we aren't just in it for ourselves, but for everyone who plays the game. I can tell you with a straight face, hooked up to a polygraph, that the addition of inscriptions would hurt the game and the players in it. A small feature would be added to cater to a few people's vanity but the cost would be far too great to justify the gain.

Quote:

For the millionth time:

Weapons and mods are part of actual gameplay. Fame and Rank are NOT.

And the new salvaging system isnt strictly to get rare items. The only people who keep ranting about rares are the anti-inscriptionists. Bottomline is that the proposed salvaging system is a more flexible system NOT just to get rares. It's only your narrowmindedness that cant get around that idea.

I've already answered this. Weapons and mods are part of actual gameplay, skins are not. Ideas of additional collectors with more mod variation have already been proposed. I proposed the idea of weapon crafters who make customized collector weapons with inherent mods chosen by the player. This isn't good enough for you because you are in it for the skins, not for the gameplay. The accumulation of the things you have said up to this point confirms your primary interest in skins. Don't come out pretending to preach fair gameplay when your true intentions are so blatantly obvious.

UndeadRoadkill · Oct 13, 2006, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

The accumulation of the things you have said up to this point confirms your primary interest in skins. Don't come out pretending to preach fair gameplay when your true intentions are so blatantly obvious.

The accumulation of the things you have said up this point confirms your primary interest is in having things that few others can get in order to feel "1337." I'm not trying to flame you, but I can't believe you go around saying the things you do, and then expect us to believe that you're trying to fight for the greater good.